Dubas Explains Penguins First Round Picks, Trade Attempts
Pittsburgh Penguins president of hockey operations/GM Kyle Dubas offered a simple, “Yes.”
When asked if reports were true that the Penguins pushed to trade upward in the 2025 NHL Draft, the general manager simply confirmed it and noted that no teams moved out of the first round despite his and other teams’ attempts to pry loose one of those coveted spots. Indeed, it seems moving up would have cost the Penguins both of their scheduled first-round picks.
So, instead of one player, the Penguins landed three.
Dubas’s maneuvering gains the prospect-poor Penguins three first-round picks following their surprise selection of Ben Kindel with the 11th overall pick. Then, Dubas quickly traded down for two more first-rounders.
Selecting Kindel was only the first raised eyebrow, as moments later, the Penguins and Philadelphia Flyers executed a trade which gave Philadelphia the 12th overall pick but the Penguins picks 22 and 31. Dubas later packaged his second-round pick (59th overall from the Washington Capitals in the Anthony Beauvillier trade) to move back up to 24th overall.
Then the Penguins added size, though not necessarily by intent.
At No. 22, the Penguins selected forward Bill Zonnon, and then at 24 selected Will Horcoff. Zannon was the only pick that jibed with his rankings, as the scouting services and amateur scouting outlets generally ranked Horcoff in the early to mid-second round.
Read More: Penguins Get Strong Center with 22nd Pick: Forward Bill Zonnon
However, Dubas didn’t hesitate. It seems Kindel was high on their board, and when the top four centers were off the board by No. 10 (The Anaheim Ducks selected the last of the big names, Roger McQueen, directly before the Penguins).
While Dubas’s cell phone might have been hot to the touch after so much usage, trying to move up and then moving down, and of course, the obligatory conversations about moving some of the Penguins veterans, the picks caught many by surprise. The smallish Kindel (5-foot-10, 176 pounds) was generally rated as a later first-round pick, but Penguins vice president of player personnel Wes Clark had been watching Kindel.
“I think right from the beginning of the year, he was a player that our area scouts and then Wes had really keyed in on as someone that they had a lot of belief in. So I had watched him play, and he just continued to get better and better,” said Dubas. “We understand he’s not the biggest guy, but you look at the production and you look at the intelligence and his skill set. What we came to in the last couple of days as we met here was if we passed on him, we had intel that he wasn’t going to go much further beyond 11, we just didn’t want to look back on and say, ‘geez, why did we pass on this guy that had 99 points and then stepped up his game in the playoffs?'”
Clark has a solid track record of finding talent, such as Matthew Knies and Fraser Minten, later in the first and second rounds, as the director of player personnel for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Now the VP of such decisions for the Penguins, Clark seemed to be the driving force behind the pick.
“It had all the makings of one of these prototypical ones that we were going to kick ourselves about (if we didn’t select him). So Wes was certain about it for months that Ben should be in that mix and would be a great pick,” said Dubas.
Big game players were a theme for the Penguins on Friday, as their second first-round pick also had an impressive playoff run in the QMJHL playoffs.
Zannon might seem to be the most NHL-ready of the group. In fact, the big forward played primarily center this season after spending the last couple of junior seasons on the wings. And when Rouyn-Noranda Huskies coaches moved him to the middle, his game blossomed.
Oh, and he’s also a big body. At 6-foot-2, 190 pounds, Zonnon figures to continue filling out, but he already exerts strength on the ice and even at the NHL Scouting Combine, where he impressed onlookers by doing more pull-ups than anyone.
Zonnon is a left-handed center who has more work to do but has already impressed some scouts as a potential hard-nosed center with offensive pop. Scouts noted his strength on the walls, intense forecheck, and his ability in the defensive zone, yet he also scored 28 goals with 83 points in 58 games.
“His production speaks for itself, but I think the thing that was most exciting to us was that he really thrived when he moved to center. He was excellent at center, plays in all situations, and plays against the other team’s best players,” Dubas said. “As the year went on, the level of competitiveness, especially in the playoffs, was really a driver for his team, and that was for us the most exciting part of it. The combination of size, competitiveness, and production, and then stepping his game up as it went along.”
Zonnon is a human interest story after his parents came to Montreal from Togo to go to school. Zonnon grew up in Montreal and couldn’t help but fall in love with the Montreal Canadiens, but also looked up to P.K. Subban.
Speed and physicality are a rare combination, and the Penguins may have gotten a steal with Zonnon as he continues to develop. At worst, Zonnon could be a heavy bottom-six winger, but at best, he could make waves as a strong middle-six center.
The Penguins’ final pick of the first round was again a controversial pick, but one in which the Penguins selected a big body with some defensive awareness. Will Horcoff is the son of long-time NHL player Shawn Horcoff. Regardless of the draftniks’ grades, the Penguins brass felt they might not have a chance to snag Horcoff at 31, but Dubas also admitted they didn’t project value with the 59th overall pick, so it was an easy trade up.
Horcoff is 6-foot-5, 203 pounds, and was immediately imposing on the stage. The Penguins added some beef, albeit raw beef, with their later picks in the first round.
Read More: Penguins Trade UP, Select Big Will Horcoft at No. 24; Full Analysis
“We felt that by moving out of the 12th pick, it would give us a chance to potentially add two more high-end players that we had rated high on our list. But not picking until 59 (on Day 2), we thought there’s very little chance we’re going to get somebody that we really had rated high at 59,” Dubas said. “What we did was select Bill (at 22), and then we just felt like if we didn’t move up and get Will Horcoff, we were going to be reaching a little bit at the later pick.”
Horcoff might be a big forward, but he is still raw. He played just 18 games with the University of Michigan after his time with the US National Team last season. Horcoff was a member of the Team USA U-18 team and had four points (2-2-4) in seven games at the U-18 World Juniors.
The Penguins have three third-round picks to begin Day 2 of the NHL Draft, and when asked if the Penguins planned to use all three, Dubas could only laugh. No, it doesn’t seem the Penguins are done wheeling and dealing, or at least trying.
Categorized:2025 NHL Draft NHL Draft Penguins Penguins News
So they have no 2nd round picks remaining but 3 3rd round picks? Did I get that correct??
Correct
Yes, and according to numerous hockey media outlets that follow the NHL draft, we did use multiple selections for 2nd round talent with yesterday’s 1st round picks.
haha. Good one
Sharp!
I just love people who have NEVER seen these kids play say oh he was drafted wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to early
Great point.
However, it’s also interesting to note that what all 3 picks do have in common according to the multiple so called “experts” I’ve read is that each of these guys is reliably mediocre doing that pesky skating thingy.
It appears that if hockey didn’t involve skating GMKD gets an A+ for the day.
But in 2-3 years who knows what skating lessons can do? I kid; I kid.
You mean the Golden Jock sniffers who don’t put the money where their mouth is?
“Golden jock sniffers” is an epithet I had not heard before; I like it. I award it 👃👃👃
That’s kinda what they’re saying. If you look closer it’s only part of their skating that the big outlets had questions about. Kindel is a very good skater, he just lacks a straight line speed. But, his first couple of steps, mixed with his hands and compete level, are great. So, not a poor skater. Zonnon has speed. And, he’s also not a poor skater. He just isn’t a smooth skater. Meaning, he could improve with refinement. But, again, not a poor skater. Horcoff has work to do. But, at 6’5″ that’s not surprising. And, at that height he’ll naturally… Read more »
1.) Thank you for taking the time to address what I’d noted in multiple assessments. To be clear, I’ve never played 10 seconds of ice hockey and all these guys look like pretty good skaters to me if they don’t fall down coming off the bench. I just hope our new draftees succeed because there’s no Sidney Crosby on the horizon. 2.) Any thoughts on why we made the trade with Philadelphia after already drafting the guy GMKD wanted at 11? Regardless of whether or not Kindle was a reach at 11 or the next Sidney Crosby, was Zonnon going… Read more »
The idea behind the trade was to have 3 picks in the 1st round instead of 2. The guys they picked went against the overall rankings, but they had their own list of players that obviously didn’t match those rankings. I believe that they traded picks throughout the draft in order to ensure they got players on their list, and to get a few extra players to add to their prospect pool.
I did find it interesting that the “panel” was clueless as to the Pens goalie situation depth-wise, even with Weekes present. I think there was chatter among them whether they’d take a goalie with their second pick. (facepalm)
Hopefully Dubas and Clark can hit on 2 out of the 3 they drafted. I think we all would be happy with that and meatloaf too
It looks like Kindel was criminally underrated because of his size, which isn’t that small for a 17 year old. Guentzel was a lot smaller. Sid was only 180ish lbs when drafter. Going from 5’10 170 at 17, to 5’11 180 at 19 is not too difficult.
I think Zonnon is going to be really good too
The only one that’s a true question mark is Horcoff. At 6’5 he’s going to have to really work on his skating. But, he’s at a great program and some pro coaching from other guys with length should help big time.
On average, 63% of first round picks make the NHL but less than 25% of second round picks and only 12% of third rounder selections make it to the NHL. And this was a weak draft.
And Dubas selected three second rounders yesterday, so the odds of them playing in the NHL are low.
He selected 1 guy that everyone agreed was a 2nd rounder. Kindel was graded as a first rounder and only slept on because of a perceived lack of size. Some scouts had Zonnon ranked as high as #8 because he’s a high floor guy with a decent ceiling. Horcoff is the only one that had a second round grade because he is a project. But, with his workout at the combine he showed that he has a ton of athleticism that can be tapped into as a 6’5 200lbs center. So, there’s a good chance he was going to go… Read more »
Boy wonder missed on trading for Zegras and Dobson, couldn’t trade to move up 2 slots and panicked with this draft group three reaches. It’s amateur hour
NYI wasn’t trading Dobson to us, so give that a rest.
Yeah Zegras blows, Ducks wanted him gone, Bad Attitude, work Ethic & not liked in the “Room” 7 why the hell would they trade for Dobson & pay him 9.5 Million a year
Apply for the next gm opening
Look at Zegras’ production the last two seasons along with his attitude … Teams didn’t want him
I am not going to pretend to know more than the pens front office, but not sure sure I get the trade back to get the 22nd and 31st and then 31st and 59th for the 24th. It seems like we didn’t have to make the 2nd trade to still get those guys we wanted. Also looks like we good have gotten all those guys later in the first or in the 2nd round. I don’t really know any of these prospects like I do college football or basketball players, but we passed on a bunch of players at #11… Read more »
Not to mention, it’s hard to get them in the 2nd if you don’t have any picks in that round.
Horcoff had a tremendous athletic testing at the compound. And, as so many centers went off the board earlier there’s a good chance another team gambles on him before the 31st pick. So, maybe not necessary, but worth it if they believe they can get everything out of him.
Plus, everyone that late on the second round this year is going to be as much of a crap shoot as the third round.
Could have have had Eklund and Aitcheson.
Would have liked Elklund from what I read, but at the same time Detroit and some other teams passed on him afterwards, so surprising. Wasn’t sold on Ait from what I read about him.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM so could 30 % of the NHL
Hope Dubas and company are right, because I am very disappointed with the 3 picks, would rather he stay and take Aitcheson and Nesbitt.
I thought this rebuild or retool was to get Penguins better in 2 or 3 years for Sidneys last years?? The kids taken last night are at least 4 years away.
HERE
One year with Michigan S&C program and nutritional staff….among the best in the country…..will have Horcoff at 6’5″ 215. Kid will be a two handfuls.
Especially since that program missed the F4 last year. You gotta think they’ll be on a tear this season. Interestingly, now with the CHL deal in place, lots of players are going the NCAA route. Gee, I wonder why that could be (part of the answer is in your statement).
Time will tell but I think we were all conditioned to expect a big move which never materialized, and as a result, we’re feeling let down. They might end up being impactful NHL forwards– or total flops. We’ll find out in a couple years.
I like the way Dubas explained the thought process on these picks. He’s basically trusting his scouts, especially Wes Clark, which is what all good gm’s should be doing. He’s also took some chances on higher ceilings than “safer” picks. That’s showing trust in your development program. They added some skill, size, and guys that were all described as having high compete levels and seem to elevate their game in crunch time.
Bottom line is that Dubas reached badly on all three of these picks and didn’t “pick the best available talent”. Eklund, Smith, and Aitcheson all project to be on higher lines or pairings than the players selected. Kindel projects to be no higher than a third-line center. Ouch.
I’m pretty excited, I know they are more unknown but dubas and Clark have a good track record so we shall see!
Dan, is it crazy to ponder if other GM’s avoid doing any business with Dubas due to his age/contract/attitude?
Well, yes. Did you notice how many trades he made this weekend?